Today’s comic features a cameo by the wonderful Jackie Bermingham, who is playing one of the creepy Order of the Crone members!! (The cauldron ALWAYS needs more eye of newt. It’s like salt, but infinitely more disgusting.)
And, speaking of which – I’m sure many of the die-hard White Wolf Vampire LARPers who read this comic have been scratching their heads and wondering where I’m going with this storyline, so I’m going to take a moment to explain a few things in this blog post:
This is what happens when you convert a game from Old World of Darkness to Vampire the Requiem in the middle of a chronicle!
I’ve always intended Wayne’s Vampire game to be a long-running chronicle that Sarah, Dustin, Abbie and Joel have been playing for years, which I established right from the beginning of the comic, by mentioning Old WoD clans such as Toreador, Malkavians and Tremere. However, it always seemed likely to me that Wayne would have made changes and adjustments to the setting over the years… he’s just that type of GM/Storyteller. That’s why I’ve always had a few twists… Demetrius calls himself King rather than Prince, for example. The Anarch movement have always called themselves Anarchists, and the traditional court positions are mostly absent or altered.
Eventually, I took this a step farther, and decided that, somewhere back before Mark joined the game, Wayne converted his game from Old WoD to VtRequiem. Converted games are fairly common, since many Storytellers of long-running chronicles want to keep up with the latest rules and publications, but without forcing their players to start over and lose their long-running characters. When this happens, a seasoned Storyteller is likely to cherry pick their favourite bits from each game, and you can bet that Wayne has done so!
The result is what you see here: A game using a mixture of old and new clans and powers, politics and settings. So never fear, Vampire LARP fans, you’ll see plenty of tropes and jokes from BOTH systems as we go along!
DrgnScorpion Says:
Its hilarious that I noticed the Ordo Dracul looks all shadowy and creepy. That made me chuckle.
FSilvermane Says:
Gotta love Vampire [Masquerade and Requiem both] for the sneaky, back biting, and political mind breaker that it is,…. you survive by the wheels within wheels within wheels scheming and bare knuckle politics representative of another era,….lol. And if done right [in my mind] you get the action of a good brawl with the conniving of backroom deals that really let you “let your mundane self go”,…..
Jollyskull Says:
OH. now it makes sense. I really like the idea as well of having the new world coventants with the old world clans it gives people a better blend and choices. The covenenats add more poltics and the clans add more dynamics into the mix with out having to be just a bloodline from another clan.
Greatly appreciated and yes always fear the ordo especially nos ordo giving you strange presents.
Jollyskull Says:
PS will we hopefully see the werewolf game Abbie is talking about even if only in the books?
Please Miss Pete it would be so awesome.
Arraxis Says:
I like the summary that Sarah gave of all of the different covenants of Requiem – especially considering how biased it is. I prefer the Camarilla over the Invictus, personally – maybe because I’m more familiar with them – but I am definitely interested to see where this is going.
R4ph Says:
I have always wondered whether they were playing Requiem or Masquerade…
julinee Says:
Great representation of the covenants!
But that raises even more questions… What clans did they keep? What disciplines do they have? Does the Sabbat still exist? Are there bloodlines? Generation or Blood Potency? What about the Peadator’s Taint? And mirrors? And…
*goes into geek-form*
Bongoloid Says:
Well, I’m probably the only one who feels that Requiem has no value whatsoever. In fact, it’s one of the only games that makes my psych-student sense tingle in a very unpleasant way. (The other one’s F.A.T.A.L.)
As a Storyteller, I try to take care of my players’ mental state. This might seem overkill, but ST for a few years and you’ll see what I mean. RPing is not normally harmful, but give a vulnerable individual the opportunity to play a wish-fulfillment game (or a childishly violent individual the opportunity to play Baali, but that’s another deal) and things will go down the shitter very quickly.
While I’ve seen bad cases in Masquerade, Requiem and its playerbase make me shudder. The game rewards being overattached to one’s character and pressing as much angst into it as you can, and when you let people do that, many will try to justify their own problems.
Whiny because Dad didn’t buy you that new iPod? Yeah, your character’s father was an abusive monster who deprived him of everything but what he needed to survive.
Bullied at school for being an elitist twat? Your character has a “special talent” that he was bullied for in school. For bonus points, he “shows them that he was right” by killing the bullies afterwards.
I’ve seen this more than I like to, and it’s extremely concentrated in the Requiem playerbase. In the Masquerade one, it’s a few Sabbat-playing loonies at most, but the VtR fanbase, it’s swarming with people who use their characters as extensions of themselves to justify their acts. This also means that they identify too much with them, which can cause an ungodly mess if anyone tries to hurt the character. Every insult or act against the character usually ends up being a personal snub, and don’t even think of trying to kill the character.
Seriously, the game makes me shudder. Its players have the worst mental health of any coherent playerbase I’ve seen, and the game – and I have read the books – encourages this kind of play.
Dorsai Says:
Strictly Vampire LARP correct? No other additions like Cthulu or Robots?
Jim Says:
I got into this comic because of the Vampire LARP stories (and stayed for the rest of it), as Requiem LARPing takes up a large portion of my hobby stuff; but I did always think “oh gaaaawwwd, it’s a Masquerade LARP, will some people not let go?”
So I’m rather happy that the Requiem stuff has been put in, even if it’s just because I can go “yay, I know what that is!”
Also, to comment on what Bongoloid said above – while I’m sure what you say is accurate for the Requiem players you’ve dealt with, I will say that in our chronicle in the UK we make sure to separate fantasy from reality (usually with post-game drinking) and to look out for players who are ‘too into it’ as they do need helping.
Harrowed Says:
I’ll agree with Jim on this, when I’ve been part of a Vampire(both versions) the people I’ve encountered that couldn’t keep it separate didn’t last in the group very long. I might sound a bit beardy for it, but most of the players that acted like Bongoloid described were younger.
FSilvermane Says:
Oh side note is it just me or does little Snickers up in the ventilation shaft look like Kim Jong Il. Now I am not trying to be racist or whatever,..I just remember some political cartoon or other that showed Kim Jong Il listening at every door, tapping every phone, reading every letter, etc,… this just for some reason reminded me of that,….
As for separating reality from fantasy in a game admittedly I have heard of more issues with VtR than VtM in that area, but admittedly I think its more that the older generation of LARPers play VtM [meaning they have matured more],..and the younger LARPers play VtR,…. I say this as a generalization not as a condemnation of the younger geeks and such,..its common for older generation to want to stick with what they grew up with in the way of geekdom so when a new system comes out they may dabble in it but will usually stick with what they know,……
Draginbeard Says:
Man, do I miss LARPing….
sturmcrow Says:
Find a LARP and get back into it then Draginbeard
I too have also wondered which setting they were using.
Furthermore, example bias does not lead to accurate representations of a group. I have seen some LARPers who take it way to seriously, but I have seen people in other groups take some concept or idea way to far as well; yes some people should not be playing games when they cannot tell reality from fantasy but to judge an entire group on some experiences seems a poor way to go through life.
Bongoloid Says:
Well, it would all be nice and swell if the rulebook itself didn’t reward angsty wish-fulfillment play. It just so happens that both the corebook and the vast majority of Requiem sourcebooks reward that kind of play by calling it “deep” and “subtle”, encouraging the Storyteller to reward angst and punish decisive action. Not only that, but the elements from Masquerade that let you play deeply inhuman characters have all been cut out. Even Belial’s Brood are “human”, yet weak-willed. There are no Tzimisce, no Paths of Enlightenment and no methods of advancing beyond the human, angsty state. All example characters are overflowing with angst, and due to the Fog of Ages, creating an inhuman character is impossible. A character cannot go outside of Humanity without going Wassail, and even the crustiest of elders have to stick to it, while using the Fog as a cheap excuse why.
I’m sure you’ve all heard this a million times before, but Requiem is the Twilight of the WoD, both old and new. One-track, angsty, inane, full of deluded fans and absolutely shallow.
While I can see how some people might like the rules better (though I feel they’re over-simplified and at times insufficient), the fluff is objectively horrible from a roleplaying viewpoint, due to its shallow focus and emphasis on only one kind of play – angst.
Without intending to sound superior, I honestly pity those people who’ve been raised on Requiem. The players, due to the (deserved) flak they get, have developed a martyred siege mentality, and thus it’s somewhere near impossible to convince a Requiem player to play Masquerade.
Julez Says:
I had been wondering when the game shifted to NWoD… What with the mention of brujah and toreador, and then all of the sudden Carthians being mentioned… was very jarring.
Jollyskull Says:
@Bongoloid
Okay hold for a second it seems to me that you are having just as much angst and vitriolic hatred you claim Requiem players have. I have played in both games and liked them bot and disliked both. Because both have to much angst for my taste not enough adventure and exploration aside from introspection. Now you claim that it encourages abusive dark evil relationships. Where does it say this? On the fog of ages it is a good thing it makes it so you can have historical figures but be not sure if the fog did not corrupt them. It gives that sense of mystery which sadly Masquerade was lacking. Blood potency levels out the playing field with elders because to often i saw ancient demigods wanting to wave their phallus. On the other hand Masquerade has more diversity in the clans and roles and abilities. One thing i really loved about Requiem is that fact it is people wanting to hold on to their humanity it is a struggle to hold it. In masquerade it never felt like that was ever an issue moraltiy was sort of never really important. Plus i dislike having to much of an overarching meta-plot where i can not make things on my own and create an interesting world that is unique.
So both are good and bad but really I detest not having freedom and dealing with built in munchkins.
So I will always ask for games like 7th sea which has a meta-plot but you can take it or leave to make your grand swashbuckling adventure.
FlawArtist Says:
I know some people don’t like requim because they cut out the metaplot with Caine coming back. That and what you pointed out in the last comic, that the carthians are the only ‘good guys’ people can play (although I think circle of the crone might be able to have good guy characters)
bookwyrm Says:
Loving how the new comer can make people even MORE paranoid
bookwyrm Says:
I’m having a prob with the WereGeek store. I’ve been trying to order books for the last 3 weeks. I get as far as shippping & I get an error; the only shipping choice I’ve been given is Canadian post (I live in the US so that won’t work). I’ve sent several emails but haven’t gotten a response… Is the store only available to Canadians?
leons1701 Says:
I could rant about the whole nWoD vs oWoD thing but I won’t. I will say that Bongoloid’s description of Requiem players doesn’t sound all that different from my experiences with VtM. Buncha angsty whiners and powetrippers. I really don’t believe anything changed all that much except that people who VtM now are mostly older and more mature players. But when the system was new, it was no different from VtR.
xaq Says:
We’re in the process of transitioning our store to a fulfillment company, and there’s a few bugs that have cropped up in the process. We’ll see if we can fix the problem and get back to you!
Harrow Says:
So Snickers was actually crawling through the ventilation ducts? That probably breaks ten different fire and safety regulations. Not that he’s likely to care much.
FSilvermane Says:
I know Abby is supposed to be a evil, vile, blood sucking Carthian Anarch but she could have atleast tied Mark to a chair instead of hogtied on the ground,…. you know how painful it is to spend an entire gaming session hogtied on your side,..well I do and it hurts,…lol. On a serious note how many kinda saw this coming,…. the new guy/girl always get messed with,… its the new girls turn next game ,..heh heh heh,…..
bookwyrm Says:
Yay! lootlootlootloot!!!
FlawArtist Says:
You know with all this talk about over zealous players, the old vs the new, and messing with new players reminded me of this guys story
http://spoonyexperiment.com/2011/11/06/counter-monkey-vampire-spoonys-jyhad/
The stuff is explained alot like it was here, and serves as a moral as to what happens when bad larping is mixed with overemotional players
Robza Says:
Systems and settings are often a discussion worth wading into. Almost always, as seen here, people have a very defined opinion on settings, and often there’s the ‘old world’ versus ‘new world’ line that someone fall on either side of.
I think it’s great how Wayne has merged the settings of both games, and he’s done it in a way that appeals to his players, and also allows him to continue telling the story he wants to.
I’m in a V:TM setting game that has gone out of its way to utilise the NWoD rules system instead – and people are really enjoying the merger, STs and players alike.
That’s the main point of Larp in my opinion, telling the story while giving the players something they can have their own input into.