Mistakes have been made.
Mistakes have been made.
News: Posted June 5th, 2019 by Alina

^ 131 Comments to “Mistakes have been made.”

  1. Oddtail Says:

    Based on the comments under the past few strips, I “can’t wait” for the inevitable comments that go:

    “But guys, Ravenia’s to blame here, too!”.

    At this point I’m not sure Mark could do anything and convince those people his actions have nothing to do with what Ravenia supposedly did wrong.

    (Ravenia may have mishandled some things. None of what she did is an excuse for Mark’s behaviour. If you don’t agree, I don’t think it’s possible to change your mind.)

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:10 am
  2. maneyan Says:

    So what are our options now then?

    1: Banned, possibly permanently, from LARPing.
    2: Devastated relationships, again possibly permanently, with his friends.
    3: Assault charges going on his permanent record

    Jesus Christ he’s screwed up, he’s screwed up BIG TIME

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:27 am
  3. GiantFlyingHog Says:

    Well, we have officially escalated from being a jerk to actually assaulting people. This is not going to end well.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:30 am
  4. Radircs Says:

    Hm I don’t think this really fits Marks character. All the time we see him getting in Conflicts he is more of the guy that runs. Even before the LARP he was nervous about it don´t know what to do and more confused than angry. I just don’t get it how he has talked himself from running away from the problem (even already set up a talk with Abby about it) to make a scene in less than 15-30 minutes. If you could change so fast character therapies would not need month or years.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:31 am
  5. Sable Says:

    Oh jeez, Damien’s expression in panel 3 is heartbreaking.

    Mark you are making my dreamt-of redemption arc CONSIDERABLY less likely.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:41 am
  6. Weatherheight Says:

    Dammit, Mark…

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:47 am
  7. Silverdaddy Says:

    Oh boy.
    And now kiss… ?

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 2:10 am
  8. mick Says:

    I’ve got the feeling that we are reading the final chapters oft this webcomic. 😢

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 2:12 am
  9. Astorius Says:

    Quick question on that last panel, is mark pushing him or is he straight out strangling him?

    Either way, that’s Mark’s end for me. Nothing that big can be redeemed with any amount of work, and i speak from experience. Right here, we see someone in lots of emotional pain, let himself become violent because of it. After Something like that, most people will decide that he’s just not Worth the effort and will ostracize him so hard he might end up hurting himself, or worse.

    Although bringing Damien was a mistake on Ravenia’s part, and a senseless one at that, this is on Mark, and definitely on Mark. The second Damien stepped in to separate them, he should have known enough to leave the perimeter.That’s what the usual Mark would have done.

    Instead, it feels strangely out of character for him to become snappy, violent, and unstable, so easily and so fast. For some reason, it feels like the last season of GOT, like there are a few pages (or rather a lot of pages) that are missing to explain such a turnaround.

    In before he gets stabbed in the back by his friends as well because he’s a massive piece of jerk and ejected from this community. Violent “friends” just aren’t worth the trouble. Save yourselves from them, people. Astorius out

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 2:40 am
  10. DocMcConvoy Says:

    Puh… That dodge of a bullet will leave quite the visible scar on his face. That was really close.

    Ok, I think it is time I clarify a mistake I seemingly made: Since I am living in Germany, I didn’t consider grabbing Ravenias wrist as actual violence, only as on the verge of it. German law has the focus more on the part of doing physical harm when talking about violence, so grabbing someone can give you a fine, but is not considerd heavy enough to put you in jail. A slap is another matter, since someone actually gets hurt.
    It took me some time to realise the differences in perception, so please take my comment under the last comic with a grain of salt.

    Now to this strip: We can see that Mark still tries to speak, his expression more begging then angry. Seems to me like some of the steam already went out. Ravenia on the other hand has no more tears on her face and looks like she is about to do either something violent herself, or is angrily surprised… the lines beneath her head imply so. Then Damien does what I also would do: Step in and part them. And Mark seems… hopeless. I don’t know how to describe it better, but his expression isn’t one of anger. More one of sadness. And then he explodes again by attacking Damien… *sigh*.

    For now it only looks like he is pushing him away to violently. That will result in serious retribution I expect. I am fine with that. He clearly needs a beating, to get into his head, that he needs to visit a professional to sort out his problems. The cops and the court on him will do a good job on that I guess. But I did talk about a dodged Bullet, now time to explain that.

    I know this is part of sexism, and violence per se is wrong, but we still see violence in a different light depending on who beats who. If to people of the same sex beat each other, we just see it as a brawl. They may sue each other afterwards, maybe solve their problems, they could even go out of it as friends, and as long as the story is believable, we will believe it, since those things also happen in reality. And when a woman beats up a man, lots of people will not even consider it any harm done, especially when the man behaved like a jerk. And most men won’t sue a women that did that, out of shame. But a man using violence against a women is always the bad guy. I won’t give Mark even one word of support here, since resorting to violence is bad, period. Everything he gets for that is well deserved. But when I view this through the lens of cultural concepts described above, getting in a brawl with Damien is at least a tiny bit better then slapping Ravenia in the face.

    Again, props to Alina, since now I think I can believe in the possibility of an redemption arc for Mark.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 2:47 am
  11. General Tekno Says:


    Yeah, this is uncomfortable to read just how much things are escalating. In a good way narratively/reader engagement-wise, of course! Stories where people do stupid things that then escalate into horrible horrible ideas are interesting to follow when properly delivered. After all, people are idiots.

    (Also, it definitely feels like he’s hitting a “no way back” point here. Should be interesting to see how this goes. Admittedly I’ve got some personal bias in that I find the rest of the supporting cast more interesting than Mark, but then by the same token they’re kinda allowed to be more fun by virtue of not being the main POV character.)

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 2:59 am
  12. Jello Says:

    Ok, I kind of pushed it to the back of my mind at the end of Chronicle One, but this whole sequence of events has brought it forward again. I’m starting to believe Mark has some sort of psychological condition that causes him to dissociate from reality. First actually believing that the hunters were real, the EPIC disconnect between what’s (likely) going on with Ravenia and Damien watching the game and having fun, now the whole interpretation of his actions through video game logic.

    Slightly off topic, but Dustin’s attempt to help Mark deal with his jealousy was pretty darn inept. The fact that Damien is recognized as Rav’s primary partner but this is the first time they’ve actually met is kind of problematic in my book. I like Ravenia as a character and I think the lengths the strip goes to to illustrate inclusivity is wonderful, but I don’t think Ravenia is blameless in this whole situation.

    Having said all that, Mark is acting incredibly stupidly and needs some time alone to think about what he’s done. But I hope that last panel is showing Mark pushing Damien, not throttling him. I suspect he’s about to get violently ejected from the game.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 3:21 am
  13. APW Says:

    Awww, I love the way this story is told. The Adam and Eve reference in the previous strip. The pop-artey details in this one. And there, I’ve never really thought of myself as art-savvy… The ascetic yet powerful choice of words. Not to mention the message it is sending (you’ve Sent a couple of messages before and I think you’re really good at it!) Please keep it going!

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 3:46 am
  14. Corsac Says:

    Highly commended for how well you’ve captured emotions in this arc!
    I foresee how real you will also handle the aftermath – the long road to forgiveness from others, and longer from himself, and so on.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 3:54 am
  15. Corbenik Says:

    …. god damn it Mark

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 4:11 am
  16. TheCountAlucard Says:

    Oh, bad. Oh, bad bad bad.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 4:49 am
  17. Smiley Says:

    So…he’s arrested now? Mark just assaulted a guy.

    I don’t think Mark will have any friends after this. Nor, according to previous comments I have seen, does he deserve them.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 5:08 am
  18. Shinji Schneider Says:

    Called it.

    But i think it’s interesting that in these pictures Mark looks more hurt/surprised than angry.

    But yeah. This is the point where Mark gets kicked from the premises.

    I still partially blame Ravenia for the whole ordeal. But mostly because we don’t know how well everything has been communicated in the past.

    Did Mark know about Damien?
    What did he know?
    Did he know about the primary thingy?
    Does Ravenia actually love Mark or was it only physical attraction?

    Because tbh. So far both Ravenia and Mark striked me as shallow people.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 5:36 am
  19. Pentagram Says:

    Before, I was wondering if Mark was relating the story to Damien, because that could have been an interesting outcome… Now, I’m kind of hoping he is, because this is NOT GOOD.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 5:43 am
  20. Tawess Says:

    Oh that is a fighting face, Rav is about to clock Mark in to next weekend i think. I’d think she is the kind of person who can take being shouted at or pushed. But hell has no sanctuary if you hurt people she loves.

    Now i have s little bit of sympathy for Mark in as so far that i once was dumb enough to also think that that sort of insecurity and jelaousy was normal and that anger was a legit response. Acting on it is the line he crossed. I was fortunate enough to get past mine. But i am also much older ;P

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 5:58 am
  21. Killiak Says:

    I get the very strong feeling that the voice-over is really Mark being introspective, whilst talking to a counselor of some sort.

    Excellent cliffhanger by the way. Can’t really tell what Mark (oh so stupidly) just did in the last panel.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 6:16 am
  22. CalderVarg Says:

    Rav should have talked to him. I’m NOT in the slightest supporting anything Mark is doing but the only way polyamorous relationships survive is by communication. Marks behaving like a child who has to share a toy (not cool at all) but I can’t help but feel that at SOME of this could have been headed off if Rav had at least txt’d him “Hey, bringing another partner to Changeling. Xxx” It would at least have given Mark a slight heads up.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 6:30 am
  23. Velgar Says:

    Anyone else think Damien looks a lot like Joel in the last one? XD

    But seriously speaking the looks, the actions and how this is building up is so spoton. I know many have commented that this is not Mark and they don’t like where this is going… The former being understandable, we rarely see the steps that took a person to a snapping point except when we take a look at it with the power of hindsight… And latter being even more so, ‘cose this will get more ugly before it gets better.

    But that’s all good. In a way. This is great character study abd great reminder that not all things go as planned every time. Some times you need to do some real dirty work for that happy ending. If there is even one… Which I believe there will be.

    As mentioned by many in previous strip (yours truly included) Mark isn’t the best equipped chap to deal with all this. Even if he had the rules of this little polyball explained to him or not. He has his flawpoints. They’ve taken multiple beatings all along these stories. Now the faultline has broken. And only now does our journey truly begin.

    At least I’ll be in for the ride 100%. I’m sorry for all who do not want to join. I understand perfectly. But I do ask you to take a seat as well. It will be hard, but all good things in life worth having are. I have very much fate that this will be for the better of it, thus far the writing has been topnotch and I do believe it will continue to be so as well.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 6:49 am
  24. Kaunisenkeli Says:

    *sigh* Do forgive me, I need to go fuse my head to my desk. So many bad decisions here, Mark.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 6:53 am
  25. TheDarkTyger Says:

    Damnit, Mark.

    I’m not sure how he’s going to recover from this one. I don’t like this. It’s an ugly heel-turn on his personality. We go from a lovable and naive goofball to this in one story arc. I’m sorry, but it’s just out of left field. I can get the jealousy and the yelling, but this has just gone way over the top and doesn’t mesh with anything we’ve ever seen of him before.

    There’s no recovering that relationship. That’s for sure. But this also destroys several friendships. I can’t see how to continue with him as a main line character and part of the group.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 7:15 am
  26. Orange Lantern Says:

    Dark tidings aside, I really, really, like the coloring on this page.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 7:24 am
  27. Gothicus Says:

    Well no more Changeling for Mark, hell probably no more Larp as they are all run by the same couple of people.
    I like the realism of this latest thread but I’m seriously wondering where we go from here.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 8:05 am
  28. Joe Says:

    Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez O_o

    Permaban for sure. I’d actually be upset if he gets anthing less.

    If he’s lucky that will his only punishment.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 8:31 am
  29. DrRandy Says:

    Oh, dear…. *SMH* Mark, stahp.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 8:32 am
  30. Nep Says:

    He had super better get banned from the larp, and I say again I hope this monologue is to a therapist.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 8:54 am
  31. Caelestio Says:

    And there is the perma-ban and all kinds of sadness.

    Oh, Mark. You have found so much. To have it taken away.

    Y’need help son.


    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 9:17 am
  32. Lacynth40 Says:


    Instant ejection from game, and a ban if his friends can’t smooth things over. Seriously, just no. Mark needs a few weeks to cool his heels, with some friends that won’t let him be alone to wallow in self-hatred, but also won’t baby him and tell him it’s all right. This is not all right.

    Yeah, Mark didn’t understand the whole poly thing, but violence is never ok.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 9:28 am
  33. Core Says:

    Oh God. That’s not good. For a moment I thought he was strangling him, but still, pushing that violently. This was already not looking good.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 9:35 am
  34. Daniel Says:

    This is going from bad to worse…Mark seriously needed some time to cool down.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 11:23 am
  35. Ryoga Says:

    If the next comic begins with him waking up an hour later with a black eye and major headache, I think we’ll all understand.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 11:31 am
  36. Penpal Says:

    Why has Ravienna such a gaze of terror in Panel 3? O_o

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 11:55 am
  37. Tim C. Says:

    Oh Jesus, Mark. I have been on your side for a long side. You got dumped into a situation that you were not emotionally ready for by people who should have known better.

    But something you should know by as an adult is never do something that gets the police involved. If you are in the right, once police get involved the situation becomes a lot more messy and irreversible.

    Alina, great job at capturing some LARP drama.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 11:55 am
  38. C.A.Collins Says:

    Well, shit. Grabbing someone is stupid, but the person assaulted can decide it wasn’t major enough to press charges. Hitting someone, I suspect the police don’t need the victim to press the charges, at least for a overnight stay in a cell.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 12:05 pm
  39. Song Says:

    Oh. Oh, no.

    (Also, I love the backgrounds.)

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 12:35 pm
  40. Rylok Says:

    And this is how we go to jail.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:15 pm
  41. TB Says:

    Yep. It isn’t just holding an arm now. This is over the line in any group, unless you’re talking a street gang.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:41 pm
  42. Ben Hughes Says:


    Okay, Damien, I get that you might be the only one there to step in, but you were are a target just as much as she was. (I say “target” because his internal HUD is almost strictly combat-focused currently. It would take quite a strong emotion to pull him back from that lunge…and the feeling that he has for Damien only pulls him forward.)

    However… you put your hand on the collar. You made a BIG gamble on Mark’s submissiveness… and lost.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 1:50 pm
  43. Cyborg7221 Says:


    This page is SO WELL DRAWN tho. Color, character expressions, the close-up in panel 1, the silhouettes in panel 4… I LOVE IT!

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 2:05 pm
  44. Matthew Gordon Says:

    wow. Hard to keep liking this character now. He should have kept his hands to himself. And grow up a little.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 2:49 pm
  45. Hils Says:

    It’s so horribly accurate 🙁

    Thank you for the comic. It’s wonderful. *hugs*

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 3:34 pm
  46. Rena Says:

    Oh no.

    So now he’s not only losing a relationship, he’s PROBABLY gonna be kicked out of the campaign and potentially lose a few friends.
    I just gotta say, you’re good at writing to make people feel the cringe and pain of these characters.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 3:47 pm
  47. omega1976 Says:

    I think this is a very important story line and I thank you for being brave enough to develop it.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 3:58 pm
  48. zmortis Says:

    That is one definitive way to end a relationship, in the back of a police car.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 4:42 pm
  49. Ironically Says:

    I don’t want to look.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 5:47 pm
  50. Cerridwyn Says:

    Surprised no one has said anything yet

    Anger Management Classes anyone?

    I ponder how Mark’s going to be the morning after

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 8:00 pm
  51. DubsAreForScrubs Says:

    Aaaaaaaaaaaand he’s gonna spend the night in prison.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 8:37 pm
  52. SamWinters Says:

    Mistakes have been made… mistakes are continuing to be made…

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 8:51 pm
  53. The Heliophage of Arhra Mazda Says:

    Ok, to be fair! I thought Damien would clock him in the face, and then I thought it would be Mark who would punch Damien. A shove is not ok, but it is way less violence than I was expecting. Huh.

    Maybe I should talk about that with my therapist.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 9:33 pm
  54. DedrixTheDigger Says:

    oh mark… what the hell are you doing…
    *rings the bell of shame*

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 9:33 pm
  55. Grimling Says:

    Damnit Mark……

    O.k. Enjoy your little chat with the cops. Idiot.

    Posted June 5th, 2019 at 11:30 pm
  56. Peya Luna Says:

    O.O! ok, that caught me of guard – mark is usually such a harmless dork, i can hardly picture him getting angry instead of pouting morosely for a change, but to get violent? starting an all out brawl?! just…no.
    and while i have no doubt that he´ll be shocked himself and deeply ashamed, this momentary black-out will no doubt send shockwaves through their group of friends

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 1:57 am
  57. porthos9438 Says:

    Ah Mark…what did you just do?

    Sadly, I think I see a perma-ban from the LARP on the horizon.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 2:31 am
  58. Dawn Says:

    And thats a policing, permanent ban and removal of all friends right there.
    You just joined the dark side. No easy redemption there now.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 2:42 am
  59. Charles Engstrom Says:

    Man…. Mark why would you do that…
    rough times are coming too much drama 🙁

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 5:41 am
  60. Jeor Says:

    Well carp. That’s it, you’re out.

    I don’t care how upset you are. There’s no excuse. Done and Done.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 5:53 am
  61. Q Says:

    Oh… no…

    I… hope he isn’t… choking him…

    It’s a shove.. right?

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 10:07 am
  62. Fitzw Says:

    Continuity — wrong hand in panel one…

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 10:34 am
  63. Trekkypj Says:

    Regrets, there’s been a few…

    I could see this snowballing into a cluster very bad outcomes for Mark. Loss of relationship with Ravenia. Probable exclusion from LARP. Strained friendships, maybe even a citation and court if he ends up injuring Damien.

    To be honest, this arc does a great job of visualizing a complex relationship, and the pitfalls of not being ready for that step. The fact is that nobody is perfect, and I really think Mark’s perspective is one of a chastened, perhaps even ashamed person looking back and realizing just where he made his mistakes.

    If we only focus on the good, we lose the richness of experience. Alina’s doing a great job on this arc, though I fully understand not everyone likes how things are panning out. I would say this – if you feel uncomfortable with the issues raised, well done! That was probably the intent.

    Failures sometimes teach people better, and the lessons should stick in the mind far longer. This is hopefully an indicator of self-awareness for Mark and he will learn from this mistake.

    For the wider cast, yeah there are some points where we could say that they could have acted differently. Ravenia could perhaps have been more tactful and more understanding of the challenge for someone like Mark to adjust to their relationship. And I’m not sure parking Mark in that room was the best move – he should have been brought home. But ultimately, the story plays out as the God Creator (Alina) wanted, and we are just along for the trip.

    I will make a prediction – post-Armageddon Mark and Abby will end up deconstructing this. I would not be surprised if this sequence ended up with Mark and Abby sitting in a ramen or sushi place doing a post-mortem trying to make sense of it all.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 1:11 pm
  64. Ozzi Says:

    I’m done right now. I’m watching with popcorn while the dumpster fire burns itself out.

    Sadly, I see this as how Mark exits the comic. He has just got a lifetime ban from LARP and a lot of people will be reluctant to be around him. Anxious people will be triggered by this event and possibly have triggers just from seeing him.

    He’s that violent dude now.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 2:11 pm
  65. Grampybone Says:

    Oh Mark; no!
    You could see where he pulled back, let go, and seemed like he wanted to apologize. But when Damien touched him he snapped.

    Oh my… This is going to be… very bad.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 3:02 pm
  66. Julez Says:

    Oh… oh Mark… no…

    This isn’t burning bridges, this is napalming the whole village.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 6:52 pm
  67. Weatherheight Says:

    I have to agree with the other commenters – this page has amazing backgrounds and the expressions are just outstanding.

    I’m hoping we get a quick look at the other players and their expressions as they’re hearing this (the whole damn group has GOT to be heaing this noise), with a panel of the GMs running like hell to intercede.

    Yeah, Mark just called a tactical air strike on his own location with this. He’s done with this gaming group. Hopefully his friends will gently call him to account but still grant him some grace.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 11:28 pm
  68. Drachenfel Says:

    Well, Mark’s character development (or lack of) has ended.

    Posted June 6th, 2019 at 11:53 pm
  69. Ozzac Says:

    Ok, first of all: yes, Mark should have stayed home in the first place, BUT: everybody contribuited to snowball this from annoying to mess. 1) Mark: yes, you were on the rebound and Ravenia is hot, but you should know yourself better. 2) Ravenia: yes, Mark is cute, but are you sure he is a right choice for something more than a one night stand, since he couldn’t wrap his head around the concept of polyamorous? 3) Dustin: yes, telling somebody who is feeling unsecure and is growing angrier by the second “Your feelings are not valid, I’m telling you how you should feel” is not a great move 4) everybody: either they don’t hang together much or they are perceptive like a rock, since his relationship with Ravenia was clearly going badly. The only person who was noticing something was wrong and searched for help before things became ugly was Mark, remember his talk with Abby in the car before the game? A pair of notes on the comic audience instead: a lot of people are saying that Mark should have no friends after this. while an aquaitance would probably stop talking to him if you really drop your friends when they are going throuh a rough patch I feel sorry for them. And I don’t know canadian laws, but if this warrant jail time if somebody throws a punch what’s the punishment, the death penality?

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 3:47 am
  70. REply Says:

    And that’s with Mr. perfect Cheekbones.
    Now they will never become friends. :-/

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 5:09 am
  71. Scarecrow Says:

    Seriously?? Jail? Prison??

    Sure, this is not a good scenario at all, and from the momentum of it, likely to get worse. But at this point he held a wrist and shoved someone, and some of you think he should go to prison????

    That’s some seriously twisted morals there. No wonder America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The impact of incarceration is catastrophic, vastly and disproportionately affecting males, especially males of color. Seriously, y’all – that’s some cold, cold hate.

    The stories not done, but I’m can see I’m not alone at being surprised at how contrived it is. Mark’s heel turn has come faster than Daenerys Targaryan, and is completely out of character for him. But I figure this also won’t get posted anyway, so…

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 9:43 am
  72. Expression Girl Says:

    While Mark will be the one to suffer the consequences of his actions, we all know it could have been avoidable. 1. Mark knew Ravine was dating Dustin and still allowed her to flirt with him. 2. Ravine had to have know Mark had broken up with his girlfriend and would probably be on a rebound to keep from feeling hurt AND what is going with feeling for someone else. 3. Mark had no idea what poly was and NOBODY explained it to him nor gave him time to process how he should feel. People were jumping into a 3ft pool feet first from the high dive and nobody took a moment to stop and think if that was a good idea.

    It is easy to think it won’t be all bad when you feel that your are the ‘good looking one’s in the relationship. But once that feeling is threaten by, not only your significant other admiring their other partner is good looking, but that almost everyone around you is saying the same thing.

    It sad how many times I witnessed someone coming into a poly relationship think they will be taking over, only to find out that is not how it works and then causing drama for all by claiming they were lied to.

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 2:20 pm
  73. Taw Says:

    Now maybe things are different where other people live. But so far… Mark would just be sitting on a “cooldown ban from larp with general consensus needed on return.” It is ugly but so far not a cops arresting.. level of confrontation. (again, where i live at least) Yes he got physical but it was IRL drama that just so happened to bleed in to the LARP. Now there will have to be talks, serious talks and depending on how democratic the LARP is prolly voting.

    But arrests… For what is so far a violent push and some yelling. Seems a bit over the top. Now if he goes all berzerker barrage on Damien.. Sure. Book his arse.

    Now as i sad before.. i am WAY more worried about the potential beating Rav will give Mark. I do not really read her face as scared or passive, it is more the face of someone internally asking them self if the other person has a deathwish.

    I guess time will tell.

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 2:31 pm
  74. Sledge Says:

    As discussed in Calgary, this comic is being merciless to me. First with Mark being all cringe, and then his crazy actions. Thank you for at least putting a few lighthearted strips in Alina. Now I shall watch the aftermath.

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 2:35 pm
  75. W Says:

    I really think his friends should have taken him home, even if it meant dragging him home. Just a friends don’t let friends drive drunk, friends don’t let friends act on anger.

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 7:56 pm
  76. Johan Broad Says:

    I’m gonna say that everyone sucks here.
    Mark for losing his cool, Raven for her lack of communication, and Damien for escalating the whole thing.

    As much as we would like to think that everyone would just automatically understand the thoughts/emotions of others, it doesn’t work that way.

    Mark’s own insecurities popped up and took a big bite out of his ass. That is NOT easy to deal with, no matter what anyone says or thinks!

    The whole Poly thing is a lot harder than ot sounds as well.

    Hopefully this will be resolved without assault charges and/or a trip to the E.R.

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 8:56 pm
  77. TB Says:

    The Heliophage of Arhra Mazda Says:

    “Ok, to be fair! I thought Damien would clock him in the face, and then I thought it would be Mark who would punch Damien. A shove is not ok, but it is way less violence than I was expecting. Huh”

    It’s difficult to see exactly what is going on in the last panel, which is probably deliberate tension on the artist’s part. I interpreted the third panel as Damien gently separating the other two, a common way to deal with fights (if you’re brave enough), and not in any way some kind of violence.

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 9:58 pm
  78. Kari Mathias Says:

    I think Damien putting his hand on the collar is what made Mark really explode – it was literally the last straw.

    And I think that this is still redeemable. He will need to dig deep and figure out his mental health, and then apologize profusely for a long time, but if his friends love him they will forgive him and help him figure his shit out. I think Abbey will be helpful once he actually TALKS to her.

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 10:25 pm
  79. Tim McCord Says:

    Well, this arc just hit the ‘point of no return’ for Mark. Which really, really sucks because I really identified with Mark up until this point. But I really don’t see how it will realistically end (ironic, this being a fictional character/world) without Mark being exiled from the LARP and having most if not all of his friends distance themselves from him for a considerable amount of time (or forever in some aspects). He’s blown up his relationship (and most likely his friendship with Dustin). This will put the whole friendship/gaming group under so much tension that something will snap.
    Mark’s pretty much lost it all in this moment unless it’s some kind of dream sequence we’re not aware of. I feel terrible for him, Sarah, Dustin, all of them.
    I think I’m going to wait a long while to come back to this comic, at least until this arc is completed and I can pan ahead. I hate seeing the character I most identified with and rooted for and shipped with Sarah destroying himself.
    Dammit, Mark.

    Posted June 7th, 2019 at 11:59 pm
  80. Kenzie Says:

    I’m really hoping that this is just another instance of Mark hallucinating or not seeing reality for what it actually is and this is all just what played out in his head instead of what actually happened.

    Posted June 8th, 2019 at 3:48 am
  81. Bakuiel Says:

    As somebody with former anger issues I have to say I agree Mark is still redeemable. It takes work to get over issues like that, and yes the relationship is probably over but if his friends abandon him too because of this it could be enough for Mark to do something really bad. Speaking from experience his friends leaving could move him to change but it could just as easily lead to him harming himself. It would be better if they just help him see his issues. I do believe they will do that and I wonder if he’s explaining this to a psychiatrist.

    Posted June 8th, 2019 at 5:56 am
  82. Marika Oniki Says:

    Well, gonna see where the next few strips lead, but this may be the point where I take a break from this comic for a while. The IRL bit of this arc has just had way too much emotionally negative drama for me; I just can’t enjoy it in fiction past a certain point because it brings my own mood down too much, and the fact that currently, I may have to wait weeks to months for the plot to get less heavy and tiring just makes it worse.

    If the creator reads this, please don’t take this as a slight towards you – You’ve done a great job telling the story of these characters, I just find reading stuff of this tone, especially in arcs that are still in the process of being told, to be emotionally unhealthy for me.

    Posted June 8th, 2019 at 6:51 am
  83. TheDarkTyger Says:

    None of this excuses Mark’s behavior, but I still think mistakes were made all around. In spite of being done in an attempt to defuse the situation, Damien did lay hands on Mark without permission. A less aggressive manner than Mark grabbing Rav, and hypocritical for Mark to blow up over it, but still an issue. For Rav’s part, as I explained before, she should have introduced Damien MUCH earlier. Like at the very start to sort out jealousy issues before the emotional investment had gotten to the point where it’d cause a blow up like this. Also, she chose the worst possible time and place to introduce him. It needed to be at a more personal setting where they could talk things out if need be. This just gave Mark time to stew in a jealousy feedback loop before he finally confronted them.

    One small note in Mark’s favor, though it doesn’t make up for the grab: He appeared to be TALKING after he grabbed her, not yelling. Doesn’t make it right, but it could have been so much worse. Then he went and blew it when he shoved Damien.

    Posted June 8th, 2019 at 7:56 am
  84. Eternis Says:

    These last few pages have been rough to read; I had the (naive) hope that the situation would be resolved with a conversation, and that Damien and Mark might come to a closer… understanding (My ship, my poor, poor ship). Instead I found my heart breaking as the underlying tensions came to the fore in a manner that’s completely unsuitable. As much as I want to see Mark come out of this in a positive manner, there isn’t anyone I can realistically see wanting to support him:
    Joel has skirted around too many rules to do anything but stick to them as strictly as possible or risk his past coming back to bite him; Dustin and Abbie had already taken action to prevent this from happening (even though it could be argued that the actions they took were quite possibly the worst options available), and as such they wouldn’t see protecting him further as their responsibility; Sarah would want to cement that her feelings for Mark were *over*; and no-one else has a strong enough bond with Mark to bother defending/supporting someone who’d break such basic rules of both Larping and Society in general.

    Also, more than a bit miffed at the statement that violence doesn’t solve anything in real life. Sure, those situations are rare and far between (that’s the point of civilization/society), but to say that violence always makes a situation worse preserves a narrative that allows broken systems to thrive.

    Posted June 8th, 2019 at 10:34 am
  85. Lux Says:

    I didn’t read Damien as putting his hand on the collar.

    I read the panel as Damien having his hands raised in mid-action of parting Ravenia and Mark, and because of the limitations of 2D art, it looks like he was touching the collar but the actual point of physical contact was Mark’s chest, which occurred moments before the actual panel.

    Posted June 8th, 2019 at 12:18 pm
  86. Drraagh Says:

    For the people who are saying that Mark should know better, sure he should but that’s like saying that Moose Mason should know better than to beat Reggie for talking to Midge or that any jealous or angry person should know better. We all should, but we will act in the moment with the anger or rage or jealousy or betrayal and not with a clear head. We will do things we regret, we’ll make some choices we don’t agree with after the fact but it’s all about where we go from there.

    For those who say he deosn’t deserve his friends or to be a member of the cast anymore because there’s nothing redeemable in him anymore because of being violent or ‘overreacting’ or however they want to justify it… He’s been hurt, he’s lashing out as a bull seeing red. He didn’t fully understand what he was getting into, and I don’t think on-camera it was ever really referenced if they ever had a discussion of what the relationship expectations and realities were.

    The talk with Dustin was good attempt but to Mark it was all sounding like ‘Get over yourself’. Mark made the choice to come as he wanted to have some fun and hopefully get away from the drama. I don’t remember offhand if he knew Rav was coming, but someone wanting to get their mind off their problems for a while is not a bad thing. He should have talked to /someone/ and he did attempt a few times but stopped before actually getting to the meat of anything, so yeah he knows there’s problems and should have sought help sooner to prevent this from happening.

    Finally, the he’s not entitled to friends mentality bugs me. Just because a friend who otherwise has been pretty calm, level headed and pretty decent guy, has one incident and should be shunned from everyone. Think of it like someone having one night out drinking with the boys, getting so drunk and doing something stupid. The friends will have issues with it, he’ll need to make peace with them and possibly some of them he may not be able to win back, sure. However, the idea in both art and life is that we are flawed creatures but we are also redeemable, that we will make mistakes but can atone for those mistakes and show that we are sorry for anything that we may have done during that time. Look at 12 Steps of AA as an example, with steps “8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.” “9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others”. and “10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.” as examples of people trying to better themselves after making some wrong choices. It is a big theme as we can see from such lists as https://www.recoveryfirst.org/blog/the-big-list-of-addiction-recovery-movies/ so.. I think we don’t need to write Mark off entirely, but he will definitely need to make some serious amends.

    Posted June 8th, 2019 at 7:07 pm
  87. WKenni Says:

    I see this ending one of three ways. Two of them exposed upon by the variety of people before me (With some variations here and there). I see the third route as this being a story told Either well after the fact, or even as a cautionary tale to other would be LARPers/gamers. Kind of a show put on for a convention and or some other local event as this was done once before in the story. But as was pointed out, all we can do now is watch and wait.

    I’m of the personal opinion that this doesn’t have to be the end unless that is what the author is focusing on. Yes, what is happening; if not an act, with Mark is bad, but it’s also human. I see a lot of people just quick to cut off ties to someone who makes a bad call like this and it makes me concerned. This is not the biggest mistake you can make, and it’s something that can be learned from and used to grow. If its a character pattern or you don’t see the problem, maybe you aren’t worth the effort. But I believe by the words we are seeing as Mark’s, and he to my mind is showing regret. A Willingness to learn from his mistake. That doesn’t get him a free pass from the people involved, and he should have to go through a redemption arc as a character in a story and maybe not even then resolve the issue with some, but that is a lot like life. I find it hard enough to hang on to close friends with the winds of life casting them away (To such things as new responsibilities and moving) though, so maybe my view is slanted.

    But that’s my rambling take on things. Looking forward to the conclusion of this arc, and still waiting since October 22nd 2015

    Posted June 8th, 2019 at 11:42 pm
  88. Joker Says:

    I…I realyl don’t like this. I get why it is happening but I hate it and I hate it for a lot of reasons. Mark got kicked hard by life, is clearly having problems, and then all of this… I don’t blame Ravenia, I don’t blame Davian, I blame Mark for his actions but…

    This feels out of character for him and I kinda feel like it’s happening more for the sake of drama and possibly punching Mark again than about doing something that Mark would do. Then again maybe that’s just me, I dunno. I felt pretty annoyed during the LARP reveal that was done and I feel irked here too. Might take a break for a while just because this just feels unpleasant.

    Posted June 9th, 2019 at 3:02 am
  89. Madigral Says:

    wouldn’t it be funny if he was just picturing this entire encounter and it wasn’t really happening

    Posted June 9th, 2019 at 2:38 pm
  90. C.A.Collins Says:

    I’m a little surprised at the comments saying A) This is out of character for Mark, or B) No redemption. Is the popular wisdom nowadays that only a certain type of person will respond with violence when stressed?
    Personal experience suggests to me that anyone can lash out under the wrong set of stresses.

    Posted June 9th, 2019 at 6:59 pm
  91. Darth Steevee Says:

    Peace is Lie Jedi Scum.

    Posted June 9th, 2019 at 8:24 pm
  92. Potatohead Says:

    I’m with the people who think this is actually not entirely out of character for Mark. We’ve seen him well-adjusted and relaxed, but back at the start he was convinced that the Hunter LARP was real – at the time I thought he was just comically oblivious. But now, more and more, it seems like he’s got some genuine and potentially serious psychological issues.

    Posted June 9th, 2019 at 10:20 pm
  93. porthos9438 Says:

    So…I am of two minds on this here. First of all, Kudos to you for making a world, characters,and story that gets us so invested in them. A big part of me almost doesn’t want to read further, because I have seen this, almost, exact scene play out several times in my friend circles, and in games. It is never pretty, and in the end, it rarely ends up in one person being totally shunned and ostracized. What I have usually seen happen is a split or divide among friends, as people pick sides, and accusations and defense fly fast and hard.
    The worst example caused the end of a whole LARP, and two news ones forming, when the founders of the original LARP, who were a couple, had this happen during game.
    The other side of me really wants to see how this plays out. I think Mark’s core friend group won’t drop him, but there will be repercussions. I think they know him well enough to, in the long run, be more concerned by this very unusual behavior. But he is, for sure, gonna be banned from the LARP. If they don’t, then they aren’t doing their job to maintain that game as a safe environment.

    Posted June 10th, 2019 at 6:26 am
  94. Lemon Says:

    So, we know the yelling happened as it was witnessed by everyone but I bet this is just Mark thinking out the scenario of what would happen if he grabbed Ravenia’s wrist and Damien interfered. Kind of like a choose your own adventure approach.

    Next comic, he’ll see that would be the wrong choice and approaches it differently instead.

    Posted June 10th, 2019 at 1:01 pm
  95. Boblobla Says:

    Does this entire conflict seemed forced or is just me because i cant remember Mark having any sighs of being such a dick before this arc. A coward maybe running away and being depressed would seem more his speed.

    Posted June 10th, 2019 at 1:57 pm
  96. Ferret Says:

    So we’re all in agreement that Mark is screwing up something royally here and deserves whatever’s coming to him at this point, but can I get a word of appreciation for Damien here? Dude has been nothing but nice this entire time, and here he is stepping in and trying to diffuse the situation.

    Posted June 10th, 2019 at 3:16 pm
  97. Smilehardcore Says:

    I feel you. Ist’s my Favoriten Ship too!

    Posted June 10th, 2019 at 3:26 pm
  98. Chiatroll Says:

    So.. Mark who was the intro character in the comic is leaving?

    It would take something like sacrificing his life to save the universe to give him redemption at this point and this isn’t that kind of comic.

    Is the comic just going to go on with a cast change?

    Posted June 10th, 2019 at 3:31 pm
  99. Nathan Says:

    Well, he screwed up pretty hard now.
    I don’t really see how anyone is to blame but Mark, its very easy to say Ravenia should have done things different, but in the end, we all make out own decisions. It was Mark who agreed on going out with her, it was Mark who kept quiet about how he felt about Damien, it is Mark who is burning every bridge he has to his friends, come on, they all try to help him. Even while they just want to have a good time gaming.
    This kid needs to grow up and face his problems. When you fall down a deep hole, first you need to stop falling before you can climb out of that hole.

    Posted June 10th, 2019 at 6:14 pm
  100. Adaon Says:

    You are doing a great job there, Alina. Thank you.
    (I am really hoping that things will be better for everyone soon.)

    Posted June 10th, 2019 at 6:20 pm
  101. Scarecrow13 Says:

    I’m amazed at the lack of tolerance and hard-heartedness here. A friend is in obvious distress; losing control of his emotions. He’s getting further rebuffed and has crossed some physical lines but nothing that would remotely get him arrested. And a lot of you are ready to totally burn him. I hope people in your lives are more forgiving than some of you are. We all want more than we deserve.

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 12:05 am
  102. Repercutio Says:

    I have to question Ravenia choosing Mark as a person in her polyamorous group. Did she ask Mark beforehand whether introducing Damien at the event was alright with him? Mark is definitely not acting like an adult here at all. But Ravenia appears to have poor skills at talking things out beforehand and recognizing the vulnerabilities of the people in her group. She always came across to me kind of a Player, not really deeply invested in her relationships, whereas Mark and Jess seemed pretty serious at least initially. Mark has only himself to blame for being with Ravenia, since it appears that he would really be happier with a partner that was completely devoted to him.

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 12:18 am
  103. Gaymen Says:

    Why is nobody stopping them?

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 1:41 am
  104. WillyDJ Says:

    Gods. Damn. It. Mark.

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 4:17 am
  105. doLst Says:

    @Lemon, I really really really hope you’re right!

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 10:56 am
  106. Ozzer Says:

    A lot of people are saying “this is the point of no return”, “he’s gonna leave the comic”, “he’s gonna go to jail”… and I’m like, what. I mean, this is bad, very very bad, but do people really call the cops on a shove? I can’t imagine Damien doing that. Actually I can’t imagine these non-white, polyamorous, goth artists wanting to get anywhere near a cop. As for Mark loosing all his friends and leaving the comic… well, I imagine Ravenia wouldn’t want to talk to him again, and maybe he will develop a bad reputation and even be kicked from this LARP, but I also think some of his friends will not want to isolate him completely. I mean, I’ve had friends who started hitting each other in the middle of a party, and what we did was, we took each of them to their houses, sat with them, and talked it out. They became friends again, after a while. No one was hurt. People sometimes do terrible things, but that doesn’t mean you abandon them completely.

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 1:27 pm
  107. Even if he was not getting violent, this is inappropriate.

    This is not infidelity, it’s the agreed to relationship.

    Ravenia is a human being and possess her own agency, she is not, and never was, Mark’s property.

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 4:42 pm
  108. Holychoke Says:

    Good. Dann. Ist. Raviena.

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 7:02 pm
  109. SaintSithney Says:

    I don’t think anyone remarking on Ravenia’s mistakes are suggesting that they excuse Mark’s actions. He’s a grown man, he knows not to scream, yell, grab, or shove people.

    Ravenia also made stupid decisions. She is at fault for bringing someone who was not remotely prepared into a relationship style he is in no way equipped to handle. Not saying that women should function as therapists for broken men, but they’ve been dating for awhile, and she should have noticed his confusion and discomfort at some point.

    You can acknowledge that both people made some pretty big mistakes while still admitting that one is making MUCH BIGGER mistakes. Ravenia’s mistake was to be too hung up on Mark being cute and fun to actually check in with him psychologically and care for him as a partner. That’s something that is immature and kind of shitty. Mark’s mistake was to not analyze his own feelings, throw a temper tantrum, and shove a guy who had never done him any harm. There are levels. It’s not bad to say both parties are in the wrong, but you can see that one is more in the wrong. If someone poked you in the shoulder for an hour and you punched them in the solar plexus, it can be acknowledged that they did wrong and you overreacted.

    Posted June 11th, 2019 at 9:23 pm
  110. HousePet Says:

    I think Ravenia’s biggest mistake here was to introduce her primary at a location/event that Mark and Dustin can’t really just make an excuse and leave from. This is not the way to do potentially awkward introductions. Coffee shops exist for reasons.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 9:34 am
  111. Smirnoffico Says:

    I’m wondering about the comments here.
    Is punching a guy over a girl really a fellony in States/Canada?

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 9:49 am
  112. Shinji Schneider Says:

    Not gonna lie.

    That push looked extremely weak. Weak enough for Mark to even be surprised why Damien fell.

    Makes it look weird that Ravenia and Damien are hugging like he just barely survived a car crash.
    But maybe he got glasbones or something.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 10:06 am
  113. Trekkypj Says:

    About what I expected. I did not think he’d actually throw a punch or get arrested. But a shove to the ground? Yeah. That fits.

    And banned from the game, too. At least it did not escalate further.
    Now for the fallout effects. 🙁

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 10:11 am
  114. Skridlowe Says:

    I feel for Mark. Many people have been in the situation where you’re certain “she’s (he’s) the one” but you don’t get that same feeling/validation/commitment back from them. Jealousy is a harsh mistress. This polyamorous business bothered me from the beginning. Most people just aren’t going to be able to deal with sharing their partner. That takes a particular POV.

    It did seem though, that Damien put his hands on Mark (just like Mark grabbed Ravenia). Bad form all around. Violence per se is now a bad thing in and of itself. In a world where violence exists and is not likely to change anytime soon, being capable of violence is a good thing— when constrained by your morality and calm demeanor. In other words you shouldn’t start something but answering violence with appropriate violence isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    Bad situation all around. No one thought any of that through very well at all.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 11:04 am
  115. doLst Says:

    I kinda get the feeling that this may have been inspired at least in part by a real life incident. It’s not resolved neatly and tied up with a ribbon. It’s kludgy, it’s ugly, and it’s unpleasant… kinda like real life. At first I was thinking we were going to get a morality play. Now I’m thinking (and hoping) that it’s getting a bit more real than that.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 1:06 pm
  116. Kaunisenkeli Says:

    Well, that didn’t go as far as I was expecting. Thankfully.

    @Shinji Schneider: They’re not hugging like that because of how PHYSICALLY hurt Damien was, but because both have just been emotionally hurt fairly badly. Damien seemed genuinely nice and eager to meet Mark, and Ravenia has not only just seen someone she love get attacked (albeit not too badly) but she’s also seen a relationship she was happy being in end in some level of violence. In my book, that calls for a comforting hug, and Damien and Ravenia are apparently on the same wavelength.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 1:41 pm
  117. ? Says:

    Oh no a person shoved another person i have seen less conflict over two guys punching the crap out each other. You all need to calm down on you no road back to redemtuon high horse.

    She was pissed about the unwelcome contact and i have sisters and would be the first to call that a bad move. But if you are going you attempt to breakup a agrument physically then you need to accept there is a good chance this wIll happen.

    Is mark being a idiot yes did Damien making the same mistake by making phyical contact make it worse yes. It looks Damien is trying to calm things down by his facial expression.

    Also not sure what to make of how mark was pushed ftom the artwork but as a general rule dont ever shove someone and make contact like in that picture. If you want to know why apply presure around the same area.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 3:52 pm
  118. Aline Says:

    Jeez… So he pushed him. Of course it’s not okay, anybody who’s too old for a school playground should know better, but I don’t see any wrong that a heartfelt apology couldn’t right again here. I mean, come on. What’s with the epic level of drama.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 4:17 pm
  119. SirTimelord Says:

    Oof Mark, ya done goofed.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 5:49 pm
  120. Fabfunk von Cronenberg Says:

    Well, I’m glad it didn’t take a more violent turn.

    But people on here need to calm down and not make assumptions, too.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 9:03 pm
  121. Shinji Schneider Says:

    “What happened here?”
    -“i had a fight with Ravenia. She tried to leave, i tried to force her to talk to me, Damien interfered and i pushed him and he fell”

    And this leads to a complete ban?

    Mark is definitely in the wrong here. But tbh. I don’t really see how it impacted the actual game enough to warrant a ban. Especially because neither Ravenia nor Damien are even part of the game.

    An outtime or getting kicked from todays game? Sure.
    A ban?

    A bit over the top for screaming snd pushing.

    Posted June 12th, 2019 at 9:34 pm
  122. Aita Says:

    @Smirnoffico: Yes, in general. This, prosecuted, is jailtime in almost all 50 states, up to a year (depending on the judge).

    Without a location it’d be hard to judge too seriously, but yes, the law is *extremely* direct when it comes to violence. It’s not often enforced, but the letter of the law is there.

    A guy who grabbed my wrist at the shop (to stop me from leaving) during a game had the store sue him for damage to them, and 180 days in jail related to it…

    Posted June 13th, 2019 at 12:57 am
  123. TealDragon Says:

    > Is punching a guy over a girl really a fellony in States/Canada? – Smirnoffico

    In the U.S.A. (though my vary between states and locations), the crime involved here is battery: intentional touching of another in an angry manner, or the intentional use of force or violence against another. Grabbing someone’s arm, pushing or punching a person or striking a victim with an object all are crimes of battery.

    It can be a misdemeanor (simple battery) if there is only minor injury, and a lack of threat of greater violence (which is where assault and battery comes in). It becomes a felony with the infliction of more serious injury, or the plausible threat thereto.


    So, in this case as it worked out, it would be a misdemeanor at most.

    Of course, part of that would depend on (1) someone calling the authorities and, depending on the details, (2) the victim being willing to press charges. And charges can be civil instead of criminal, meaning it doesn’t fall under misdemeanor or felony rulings at all, and the judgement is usually monetary (such as cost of cleaning / repairing / getting medical care).

    However, a more important point is there is no relevance to “over a girl”. The motivation involved doesn’t absolve or incriminate. He could have been pushing someone over a disagreement in-game.

    Posted June 13th, 2019 at 1:57 am
  124. MutantPryde Says:

    @Shinji Schneider “What happened here?”
    -“i had a fight with Ravenia. She tried to leave, i tried to force her to talk to me, Damien interfered and i pushed him and he fell”

    And this leads to a complete ban?”

    Except that Mark didn’t just have a fight with Ravenia. He insulted her and made threats, tried to physically restrain her from leaving, and then shoved Damien to the ground when he tried to intervene and calm things down. If that had happened in a public place, he would have had the police called on him, and rightfully so. So yes, it fully warranted him being banned from the game.

    Posted June 13th, 2019 at 1:00 pm
  125. Smirnoffico Says:

    Thanks for the replies!
    That’s quite curious! Over here technically a brawl is a punishable offence as well but the defining factor is the amount of harm suffered by the victim (minor harm, medium harm, just emotional suffering etc) which defines the severity of the possible punishmebt (from a fine up to eight years in prison in case of serious injury).
    So this exact issue of one pushing – or even punching – another would probably be classified as minor which leads to the next thing – though technically every black eye is offence, no one would even think about calling police.

    That’s probably what hooked me. I mean I’ve been witness and sometimes participant to a lot of episodes of LARPS gone wrong, some of my friends still have visible scars from said incidents and they never went as far as police, most often brawlers are ust separated from each other to cool off. Just because these instances are considered minor and not worth police trouble. Like ‘boys will be boys’ or whatever

    Posted June 13th, 2019 at 2:09 pm
  126. Scia Says:

    Well THAT turned out less extreme than I thought it might. ^_^; (I thought Mark was *choking* Damien and was going to get arrested or something – not to mention land Damien in the hospital, or worse.)

    And well… we DO talk a lot about violence. =/ If you disagree and say otherwise… well, wouldn’t that be talking about it? ^_^;

    I do think that the Storyteller reacted too strong – but granted, Damien pointed out that he was about to explode from stress, so I can see why he might react too strong. =/ But still, Mark just lost another girlfriend – he doesn’t need to lose a game he loves, too. (I mean, he’s been well-behaved up until now, right? Maybe a *temporary* ban, but I don’t think permanent is the best idea. =( )

    Also… this all could have been avoided if someone took time to listen to, and empathize with Mark. In the wrong or not, he’s really hurting *badly*; one thing people don’t seem to notice is that anger – like sadness – often stems from being hurt. The stronger the reaction, the deeper and more painful the hurt is. =( He doesn’t need someone to agree with him on *everything,* but he didn’t need to be told to take a time out from the game he wanted to stay in, to be left completely alone in the OOC room, he didn’t need to be told ‘You gotta accept this’ or ‘see the other side of things’ (not right away), and he CERTAINLY didn’t need to be told ‘This is all on you’ (especially since, in that state, it’s extremely hard NOT to have severe penalties on a Sense Motive check =/).

    Well-intentioned or not, it doesn’t matter so long as his hurt goes unacknowledged or invalidated. Doing otherwise is saying “Your opinions aren’t important – and thus saying, YOU’RE not important” (or at least, not as important as he should be =( ). And when it feels like everyone is ignoring you and what you care about, it REALLY hurts. In a state like that, all you need is one person to LISTEN!

    (Trust me. I know. ;.; )

    Anyway, I hope that Abbie remembers about that coffee outing (or whatever you’d call it XD; ). I also hope that the Storyteller rethinks his ban when he realizes that he was acting under stress. =(

    Posted June 13th, 2019 at 4:02 pm
  127. Sable Says:

    “Boys will be boys” is the issue though. I never behaved like that and thus people feel safe around me. Will people feel safe around Mark now?

    Posted June 13th, 2019 at 4:49 pm
  128. BethAthena Says:

    Thank you, Scia. You’re spot on.

    Posted June 13th, 2019 at 6:20 pm
  129. akemi Says:

    Mark is lucky Damien put his hand on his chest, because that makes the “assault” a bit foggy. Mark shows a staggering lack of self control here but I do feel that Ravina was the instigator here. Mark is DEFINITELY in the wrong but Ravina provoked this

    Posted June 13th, 2019 at 6:50 pm
  130. Sable Says:

    I think what’s worrying me is the number of folks on here who wouldn’t permanently ban a violent player. You would be running an unsafe larp! Deliberate physical assault is an automatic permanent ban anywhere with an interest in protecting its players.

    The GM might think a shove isn’t as bad as a punch, but a blanket rule protects them from being called arbitrary. What would stop Damien spreading this story? Does our hobby need a worse reputation? Larps have been shut down by police, or venues refusing to lease them space, for less than this.

    Posted June 14th, 2019 at 1:22 am
  131. Thulcandran Says:

    Ravenia “provoked” this? Seriously, how? By being in a relationship with someone who consented to the terms of the relationship? By taking him at his word when he said he was okay with it, instead of questioning whether he really was or not? By assuming he was an adult who could communicate about his feelings? By assuming he was being honest when he said he was okay with her bringing her other partner to the game?

    She “provoked” him into shouting, threatening, insulting, and then grabbing her arm to prevent her from leaving.

    No. Mark is in the wrong, and Ravenia did not “provoke” his verbal or physical attack. That’s abuse speak.

    Posted June 14th, 2019 at 1:56 am